Pivotal Shifts: Innovating To Differentiate With Stephen Shapiro

Stephen Shapiro joins Tony Martignetti to share his incredible journey of overcoming adversity and the importance of pivotal shifts in finding deeper meaning in his life and work. From his early passion for music, his dream of becoming a game show host, to his pivotal realization that he wanted to guide companies towards growth, Stephen looks back on his journey of self-discovery and purpose. He shares about his time at Accenture, the epiphany that led him to leave, and the creation of his own innovation practice. Stephen also delves into his book, "Pivotal," which challenges the concept of constant pivoting and emphasizes the importance of identifying and leveraging your unique strengths to create lasting value.

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Pivotal Shifts: Innovating To Differentiate With Stephen Shapiro

It is my honor to introduce to my guests, Stephen Shapiro. Steve started his work in innovation 25 years ago when he created and led a 20,000-person innovation practice with a consulting firm, Accenture. He's the author of seven books, including his latest book, Pivotal: Creating Stability in an Uncertain World, a wonderful book. His clients include Marriott, 3M, P&G, Microsoft, Nike, and NASA. In 2015, he was inducted into the Speaker's Hall of Fame and is a senior research fellow with a conference board. When he's not on stage speaking about innovation, he enjoys dabbling in magic and making the impossible possible. It is truly a pleasure to welcome you to the virtual campfire, Steve.

Great to be by the campfire. It's cold here in Florida, so my hands are warming up as we speak.

That's awesome. I feel like when I said magic, I should say magic. I want to hear more about that for sure, but so many cool things that I want to dive into, and I'm just thrilled and honored to have you on the show. I love the work you're doing and am just looking forward to understanding the journey that got you to where you're making such a big impact in the world.

I'm looking forward to exploring wherever we go, and I have no idea where we're going, which to me is always fun.

Using Personal Strengths To Shape A Fulfilling Career

As we do on the show, we uncover people's journeys through what's called flashpoints. These points in our journeys have ignited our gifts into the world. In a moment, I'll turn it over to you to share what you're called to share, and along the way, we'll pause and see what kind of themes are showing up. If you're ready, Steve, I'll turn it over to you, and you can take us where you'd like to take us.

I think the first thing that popped in my head when you said flashpoints, and I'm just thinking about times when you figure out what you're supposed to do with your life. I went to Cornell as an engineer, and I'm embarrassed to say that my only A in college was not an engineering class, but rather it was public speaking. I got an A in public speaking. I was great at it. In fact, before that, I always knew I wanted to be a game show host, or at least that's what I thought I wanted. I wanted to be a game show host. It seemed to fit being on a stage. I was a sax player. I think that was a little bit of foreshadowing for where I would end up.

When I went through life, that just kept on coming back. The stage kept on calling me. Earlier in my life, it was more about music. Later in life, it was about speaking and delivering content, but that's really where I've spent a lot of my time, around stages and in corporations helping them out. I think that's probably the first flashpoint, if you want to call it that, that I can remember, or at least it was an insight and an awareness that I had.

I love that you share that because I always ask this question to people, what were your favorite classes in college? Because there's something in that. It's not always what we think it is. It's not always the major that we have. Mine were anthropology, music therapy, and organizational development. Those three classes were my favorites. Hearing you say that that was your favorite class, that is one of the things that I can see. It's never too late to become a game show host.

That's the nice thing about the internet, though, is you can do your own game show host on YouTube and things like that. You have a lot more options than I did back in the day when you had to be on a major network, so absolutely.

Before we go into your next flashpoint, I want to ask, where did you grow up? Where was the early start of your life?

I'm from Brockton, Massachusetts, which most people may not know, but if you're a fan of boxing, we are the home of Rocky Marciano and Marvelous Marvin Hagler. In fact, when I was in high school, my band, the high school band, would actually be the pep band for Marvelous Marvin Hagler. He'd come back from a win, and we'd be there to cheer him on. It was fun growing up that way, but music was actually where I started earlier in my life in terms of my passion.

That's so cool. I'm glad you mentioned that. The city of champions, as they call it, right?

Exactly.

Ethical Implications Of Business Practices

Brockton's getting their big up yet. That's wonderful. Take us to the next point in your journey and your next flashpoint, if you'd like to share it.

There are a few interesting ones. It depends on how granular we want to get, but I'll say the one which probably was the biggest flashpoint and the one which was the biggest epiphany for me was, and a lot of times if I tell the story, it's a short version. I'll tell a slightly longer version since I think it gives a little more texture to it. Back in the early nineties, when I was at Accenture, I was one of the co-leaders of a practice called business process re-engineering. Basically, what that meant is we would optimize a company's processes.

In my role, I would do training classes. I would go into companies and do consulting. Basically, our goal was to optimize a company's processes. I remember this one time, one of the things that we realized, though, what I realized, is that when you optimize a company's processes, companies inevitably would downsize the workforce. They would use it as an excuse to get rid of people. There was this one project I was going on to. Before we got started, the CEO announced that because of this project, 10,000 people would lose their job. Now it was a huge number, but something in my brain was able to rationalize it. Just like, if I don't do it, someone else will do it, or maybe they'll get better jobs, whatever it was.

One night, I'm in a hotel because the project wasn't in my hometown. I'm in a hotel, and I turn on the TV, and there's a news story about three executives from that company, the client that I was working with, about three executives that lost their jobs a year ago. These were top executives. The first one was the happiest. He had an inheritance. He was living off of that. He still didn't have a job, but things were fine. He was optimistic there'd be another job for him. The second person cried the entire interview. Again, an executive couldn't feed his family, so he actually had to mow lawns in order to just put food on the table. The third person committed suicide. I go back to the client the next day, and I said, “I saw this news story, was it true?” They said, “Yes, what you saw is what actually happened.”

I walked off the project. I quit Accenture. I actually told my boss, I was like, “I'm done. I can't do this anymore.” My boss talked me off the ledge and said, “You can leave the project. That's not a problem, but we don't want you to leave. Take a leave of absence, take some time.” I took six months leave of absence. What I realized is I love my work. I just didn't want to help companies shrink. I wanted to help them grow. I wanted to create jobs. That was really a big flashpoint for me, when I realized growth was my thing, helping companies become prosperous. Back in the mid-nineties, nobody was talking about innovation, but I thought innovation, that's the key. We created this 20,000-person innovation practice from scratch just because I had that flashpoint, that epiphany. Watching that TV show was really the reason it all happened.

Wonderful. I'm glad you shared that because there's a lot of people out there who have that emotional element to the work that they're doing. How can you not? When you're doing something that you feel like is impactful work, but then you see the people side of it and you realize, what am I doing to make an impact on people's lives? We have to see it all the way through in order to understand, what do we really want to do in terms of our impact and the fall-on effect of that?

I worked in biotech for a number of years, and one of the things that was always at the center of this is how are we helping patients? Sometimes there's another element of this, what is the cost of helping patients or extending lives and things like that? Sometimes that weighs into the equation, and we have to worry about the effect of that. I love what you shared. I think there's something about that, which we have to always be thinking about, at the expense of what.

There are always unintended consequences, good or bad, for the work that we do. When I help companies become more efficient, there's a positive unintended consequence, or maybe that is the intention, to help shareholders become more successful so they can invest in other businesses, which may actually help a lot of people in the long run. That's great for somebody who wants to do that. I don't typically quote Stalin, but what he said was spot on, which is, he said, "One death is a tragedy. Ten thousand deaths is a statistic."

I may have the numbers wrong, maybe it's a million deaths in history, but whatever it was, for me, it was like, one lost job, that was a tragedy but 10,000 lost jobs? It was a statistic, it was a number. Sometimes we see what's going on, but we don't have that emotional connection to it at that level of depth. That level of depth is actually where I think action comes from. It's not from abstract numbers and statistics but from emotions. That's how we're wired as human beings is we make decisions based on emotions. If we're looking to sell something, we sell an emotion, not facts. I try to get in touch with those as much as possible in the work I'm doing.

Impact Of AI On The Job Market

That's wonderful. I'm looking forward to getting into really what has got you to where you are now. There's an element that is top of mind, AI. AI is on everyone's minds, and how is that impacting people's livelihoods? Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I think it's, on the grand scale, a good thing, but there are a lot of people who are feeling like, what is this going to cost me in terms of my job? What do I need to do to pivot into the next thing? I think that's something that we can get into either now, or I'd like to also hear more of your pivot in your flashpoints. Do you want to just opine on a little bit of the AI story?

Sure. I have no idea what's going to evolve as time goes on with AI. If you watch some of the sci-fi movies, it might not be all good, but I'm more optimistic. The way I look at it is that there's always been technology. This is on a much-accelerated scale and a much larger scale, but there's always been technology that automated jobs, took away jobs, whether it's manufacturing automation or technological automation. We've always relied on technology to help us. Whether it's the calculator, it's pretty basic technology, but I'm not going to sit around and try to do complex calculations anymore, AI is that on steroids, obviously. I think the way I look at it is, AI helps us tap into our higher cognitive function.

If we can get rid of the work that machines can do, at least I believe, and I'm hopeful, that as human beings, there are things that we can do that technology will never be able to do. Therefore, I love to leverage AI to be a sounding board, as a starting point to get me kickstarted with something, but it's not going to be the final answer. It basically, just like the calculator will do the calculations for me, I still then have to interpret it and figure out what it means. What I'm excited about is it can help a lot of people, but again, some people will be impacted, just as manufacturing technology took away manufacturing jobs. We do have to be ready to make a change because of those types of shifts.

I love the way you said it because I often look back to the Industrial Revolution and say, this has happened before, and it's going to happen again. It's just happening on a different scale. If you think of it, this is a catalyst for growth, for human growth, not just business growth. It's a growth of how do we evolve to the next thing? The idea is we need to just see it as, this is our little nudge in a direction of who do I need to be next? Who do I need to evolve into so that I can use the tools, the technology, but also think, what is my higher purpose now?

There are unintended consequences of everything. You talked about even the work you were doing, I think it was in biotech, and it's like, there's an impact for people living longer. It seems like everybody living to 100 and 120 and 200, that would be a great thing. In terms of resources and society and jobs, and the list goes on, there's a lot of things that we're not prepared for if people double their lifespan. Something which seems good may not be good. Something which seems like it might be risky has an upside. Everything has upsides and downsides. I think that the key for us as human beings is to not be a victim to a technology, but rather recognize, there are things we can control. There are things we can't control. There are things we can influence.

Human beings must strive to become victims of technology but rather recognize that there are things they can and cannot control.

Beyond that, you can't really focus too much on it because, like some of the things that go on in the world, some people, they're passionate about it, they're going to do everything they can to influence. I realize it's not my strength. It's not my passion. I try to influence the world in the way that I can influence the world and try to eliminate some of the noise from everything else. I think if we all just figured out what is our sphere of influence and control, and focus our energies there, we'd all be a lot happier.

Power Of Perseverance In Realizing One's Dreams

That's wonderful. This is great. I really enjoy your insights and your perspective. It's really refreshing, but also very much where we need to be thinking. I want to get back into your story and see where, here you are at Accenture, tell me, what's the next flashpoint that really brought you to the work you're doing now?

That flashpoint led to the next flashpoint. That was 1995 when I basically left the re-engineering world and created this innovation practice, grew the innovation practice. It was successful. In the process, because we were so successful, I got lots of money and budgets to bring in people. There was one person in particular who I decided I wanted to work with. He was, at the time, one of the greatest thought leaders. He had one of the most influential books in the history of business books. His name is Dr. Michael Hammer. He was the father of business process re-engineering. His book, Reengineering the Corporation: Manifesto for Business Revolution, back in the early nineties, was the second best-selling business book in the history of business books. Time Magazine in 1996 selected him as one of the most powerful and influential people on the planet.

What I loved is he writes these books, he gives speeches, he travels the world, and he makes a huge impact in people's lives. I thought, that's what I want to do. I got together with a career counselor, and the career counselor said, that's great. If that's where you want to be in five years, basically, what I wrote down is where I wanted to be. This was November of 1996. I met with a career counselor, and I wrote down, "I want to be the Michael Hammer of the next wave," which meant that whatever's after re-engineering, in my case, it was innovation, which meant I wanted books, speeches, traveling the world, making an impact.

The career counselor said, if that's where you want to be in five years, write down where you need to be in four years. Where do you need to be in three years, two years, one year, six months, one month? I ended up with a seven-page document with the most tedious, boring things I had to do. My life for five years would have been complete misery. I said, this is terrible. I'm not going to do it. I literally took those seven pages of plans, ripped them up, got home, threw them in the fire, burned them up, and said, I'm not going to do that. But I still had that one sentence. November, 1996, I said, in five years, I want to be the Michael Hammer of the next wave.

November of 2001, literally almost five years to the day after I wrote that statement, my first book came out. I left Accenture, I became a professional speaker, I traveled the world, and I'm doing what I'm doing right now. It was pretty amazing that I didn't follow my plan. In fact, there's nothing on those seven pages that I did. I took a completely different path, yet I ended up exactly where I wanted to end up. That, to me, was a pretty big flashpoint, was the book coming out, leaving Accenture, and doing my next big thing. I've been doing that for 23 years.

Wow, it's so amazing to hear that. One of the things is you've got to name it to claim it. That's one of those classic coaching things that we talk about. This element of, like, if you don't know where you're headed, then you just keep on going through the motions, and then maybe you are filled with regret that you didn't do anything in that path. The fact that you had the clarity of what you wanted to be in the world and then figured it out through whatever methodologies that you could, but it was always having that North Star of saying, this is who I want to be, and I'm going to take whatever steps I can.

Maybe it had to do with building the right networks of people and finding whatever is, often I say there's, like, portals and ways that you can leapfrog into the right places by just having the right conversations and taking the right risks that get you there. That's wonderful to hear that that happened in that way, because you're right, you can't just logic your way out of it. You have to take the steps by just getting out and doing things.

I think sometimes you just plant the seed in the subconscious, and every decision you make, even if it's not a conscious thing, every decision you make is saying, is it moving me towards where I want to go? When I had opportunities to write books and articles, it's like, absolutely, that moves me in the right direction. When I started doing a lot of speaking, that moves me in the right direction. I would make some requests. I found somebody who knew a publisher, like, could you get me a deal with a publisher? We got a deal with a major publisher. All those things that weren't necessarily conscious, but I was certainly thinking about them at some level when I was making decisions.

Creation And Success Of ‘Pivotal’

Everything aligns towards that same goal. In every decision you make, it's almost like you say what you say yes and no to is aligned with that one goal. That's so cool. I really love that perspective. Tell me about, you've had a lot of books, seven books, all of them pretty amazing, but tell me what led to Pivotal: Creating Stability in an Uncertain World. This particular book, I feel like it's got a lot of success, and I think it's a brilliant book, but what led to this particular book?

Pivotal: Creating Stability in an Uncertain World is actually based on content that I initially developed when I was at Accenture. It's, in some respects, time-tested. It has really proven that it works over decades of time, but I never decided to write it as a book, even though it was still one of the most valuable pieces of content I would use with my clients because it was just a fundamental shift for the way they operated. Just to get a little context for people who don't know the book, the concept of Pivotal: Creating Stability in an Uncertain World is we're always so focused on what should change, we never really ask the question, what shouldn't change?

If we can figure out what's going to stand the test of time, that can create the greatest value, then we eliminate the spinning and pivoting that happens. We chose Pivotal: Creating Stability in an Uncertain World because it's a play on the word pivot, but they're very different. Pivoting is about changing direction. Pivotal means to be irreplaceable or of crucial importance.

During the pandemic in particular, when I was working with my clients, there was just the level of confusion around what should we do? People are pivoting, changing direction, getting burned out. The stress, the overwhelm was just incredible. Nobody had clarity. You put on top of the pandemic, you had the supply chain issues, and then you had inflation, and then you had recession, and then you had AI, and you put all, and people are almost like a deer in headlights, not knowing what to do. I thought, I know the content is the antidote to that. The content in Pivotal: Creating Stability in an Uncertain World is the antidote to the perpetual pivoting and the lack of clarity. I just decided it was time to write that book to help people create some level of sanity in the workplace.

For the people that read it, I think it has a pretty big impact because it's not just about the organization, but it's also, how do you as an individual create stability? How do you create something which is powerful for you that becomes a platform on which you can build the rest of your life, as opposed to it just being about a business book, which is, I like business books, but I like it when it also has an application to the individual.

I just love that you shared this because we just finished talking about your journey to getting to your work of being a speaker. It almost is a perfect example of figuring out what's pivotal in your life. I love that this is not just about business. It's about figuring out what stays constant. You don't throw out something just because it's not working yet. You figure out what it is that you want to keep as your constant along the way and allow yourself to say, if I stay true to this path, this is going to serve me. Even all the other fads and things that are happening along the way, all the noise, it's there to test me to see if I'm really resolved and committed to this path. I think it's great to hear that. Also, in the context of your story, that this ended up having that effect on how you were pivotal.

I love that concept of what's constant because we all can improve. This is not saying we shouldn't change, not saying we shouldn't improve ourselves, but, at the same time, we're so quick to either dismiss what makes us great or we've not taken the time to actually see and understand what makes us great. Again, this is individuals or organizations. If we can truly understand what makes us great and what made us great, then we can figure out what will make us great in the future. The key then is to recognize that, like an organizational context, we always look at products and services and offerings and things like that, but those never stand the test of time. Those always have to change.

Our capabilities, we have capabilities, things that make us special as an organization, that, if we can leverage those, we can use them to meet new requirements, create new products, create new services, create new offerings, but the capability stays constant. I think we need to get clear that it doesn't mean we don't change, but we leverage that power that we have as an individual or an organization to create what's needed next. But it's, again, we have to focus on ourselves about what has made us great and leverage that as much as we can.

There's something that I want to run by you to see if that passes the pivotal test, in a sense. It is that, like, it sounds like the how can change, but the who doesn't.

Who we are doesn't change. If, in an organizational context, it might be culture, it might be what makes us great, our history, our relationships, our capabilities, those are hard to replicate. When we talk about differentiation, the whole premise of Pivotal: Creating Stability in an Uncertain World is to innovate where you differentiate, figure out what you do better than anyone else that creates value that'll stand the test of time, and put your energies there. When people hear differentiation, they hear the different part, but they don't realize it's much more than that. It really is about something that's going to stand the test of time. It can't be replicated.

When companies have a capability that is difficult for someone else to copy, but it still creates value in new ways, that's really what's so powerful. There's that constancy. I always say it's stability, then agility. It's not changing direction, but it's like having a solid platform on which you can ultimately change direction.

I'm changing my thought process. You can have a constant why, a constant who, and a constant how. It depends on how that is your differentiating piece of the puzzle. I think that, to me, is what sounds like you're driving towards, figuring out what is the element that is uniquely you as a company, as a person, whatever it is that makes you unique.

It's unique is only one of the dimensions. We call it distinctive as the first dimension, but it has to be desirable, which means others desire it, but it also has to be desirable internally. It also has to be durable, and it's unique, but nobody else could copy it. It's really a combination. Plus, there's two more Ds, but we don't need to get into the details of it. The point is it's actually much more nuanced than when people hear differentiation. They might think, what makes you different?

Being different, if I love purple, it's my color, but the fact that I have purple doesn't create value for others. Maybe it makes me different, but it doesn't create value. If I'm saying, hire me because everything I have is purple, people are like, but we don't care. What does that do for us? It's like, I do it because I like it. I do it because it helps me stand out, but nobody cares in terms of value creation about the color of my books. It's really about getting all those facets together.

Challenges In Building A Solopreneur Career

That's wonderful. I love that. It's like that might be something that makes you feel different, but it doesn't necessarily impact the customer in that decline. I want to get back to some of the challenges of building into this world of being on your own, solopreneur, that kind of thing. What were some of the pitfalls and obstacles that you faced in getting into this work? I know it wasn't all easy going. Tell me some of the challenges you faced.

It wasn't easy going, and it still isn't easy going. I think the life of an entrepreneur is always unpredictable. I think the first mistake I made was I knew I was a great speaker. I got an A-plus in public speaking in college. I was a great speaker. At Accenture, I was on stages in front of thousands of people, and people loved it. I was a great speaker. I left Accenture, and I was a great speaker, but I didn't have a business. I realized very quickly that being great at something doesn't mean you have a great business. There are so many other facets to the business, selling, marketing, branding, and all these other things.

Being great at something doesn’t mean you have a great business.

All of a sudden, you realize it was great when I was at Accenture because we had people selling and marketing and doing IT and HR and all those other wonderful things, and now I have to do everything. I'm basically the entire business. That's the first hard lesson I learned, you've got to get out there, you've got to do the work. It's not always the things that you love. Over time, I figured, partner with other people. With Pivotal: Creating Stability in an Uncertain World, one of the things I talk about is, for you to be pivotal, to innovate where you differentiate, you need to figure out what makes you special. If everything else is not a differentiator, if not places where you should be putting your energies, what else can you do? Who can you partner with?

If I can partner with people for things that are important but aren't my differentiator, for example, my website, I can easily spend the rest of my life tinkering around, tinkering around with my website, playing around with the copy, making it better. I like that stuff. To me, it's a great, fun, creative endeavor, but it's not my differentiator. People don't hire me because I have a great website. I partner with other people to do those things. That's the other thing which I learned, at some point, you have to focus on your differentiator and find people who can focus on their differentiator to help you with your other activities.

It's a great lesson there. I think there's something about that which we often hear is that the most successful people ask for help when they need to. Part of that is what you're just modeling there, a sense of, I need to put my differentiator on a booster shot, on rails, and just move in that direction and make sure that I'm not distracted by all the things that I could be doing. Honestly, it's not the best use of my time. That's what you just described, a sense of being able to be okay with putting that on other people's radars and allowing them to take that, because if I can do what's my true point of differentiation, then I can be really effective and really make a difference.

It doesn't mean that you even have to spend money. I think a lot of times we say, I can't afford it. There's a great expression someone told me when I was working in Malaysia many years back, and they said, before you can multiply, you must first learn to divide. It's like, what does that mean? Basically, the whole point is that if you want to grow your business, if you want to be better at something, you need to also have other people who have a vested interest in it, to divide your business up.

If you want to grow your business and be better at doing something, you need to also have other people have a vested interest in it.

One of the things which I'm always looking at is how do I create partnerships and relationships with people where they benefit from my success? Maybe I don't pay them as much, or maybe I don't pay them anything upfront, but they take a slice of whatever we create together. It's how, in the speaking business, for example, when we work with the speakers bureau, they book a speaker, they book me for an event. I benefit because I get a speech that I wouldn't have had otherwise, and they take a percentage of it. Fantastic. I love those arrangements.

The other thing which is interesting is that a lot of times, if you are a person who's doing good things and people see that it's exciting, they want to be part of it, not because of money, but just because of the excitement. The number of people I've had over the years who just said, let me work with you because it's something I believe in, or it's something I want to do, or it's just exciting. I want to learn from you and what you're doing. I find it's a really great way to operate, just to be a person who's generous and giving, and then people want to work with you.

That's going to stick with me, before you can multiply, you have to divide. I think that is such a great thing to think about. I think often we just don't see it that way. It's also a sense of seeing it as an abundant place to be in, that mindset of, how do we create a more abundant world? Not just by money grabbing and being like, we need to take as much, but we can create together, create opportunities together. I think that's wonderful.

Journey Of Self-Reflection

As we're coming close to the end, I want to ask one question about, what are some lessons you've learned about yourself in this journey that you haven't shared already? This has been quite a remarkable journey so far. Obviously, your next chapter of being a game show host will be quite rewarding, but I think it'll be great to learn, what have you learned about yourself to this point?

There's so much I've learned. For example, I always thought I was outgoing and social. What I've realized is I'm actually an extreme introvert, and I'm incredibly shy. I didn't realize that, but the more I do my work. In fact, I remember asking somebody once, I think it was Myers-Briggs or something, I tested as an introvert. I was like, how can I be an introvert? I love being on a stage. The person who administered the test said, because people who want to be on stage are introverts. Actors are introverts. They're removed from people. I thought that was an interesting insight. I've then had to manage my energy accordingly. I spent a lot of time thinking about, like, how do I make sure I don't burn out?

Being on stages might be easy, but then the social events afterwards and the talking with people, I do it because I enjoy it, but at the same time, I have to have routines afterwards to take care of myself. I don't get too overwhelmed by it. There are a thousand things I've learned about myself, but I think the main thing I've learned about myself is there's a heck of a lot more for me to learn about myself. It's a constant journey of exploration and understanding. I think what I know about myself and the world is probably like one-thousandth of one percent of what there is to know. Fortunately, hopefully, I have a few more years to figure out at least a little bit more.

Books That Influenced Stephen

I love it. It's such a brilliant insight because I never really put two and two together on that because you think all introverts could never be a speaker, but the reality is it's quite the opposite. I think that is an interesting thing to now look at the world through that lens. I'm going to be, like, attuned to that. It's a wonderful thought. One last question, what are 1 or 2 books, or maybe 3 or 4, that have had an impact on you, and why?

I would almost always say these two books. Since I've always said in the past, I'll say it again, Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, which to me is just such a powerful book. He was a Viennese psychiatrist who was in the concentration camps during World War II. He created Logotherapy, which basically, instead of man lives because he wants to have pleasure, his whole thing was human beings live because we want to have meaning and purpose. Anytime I feel lost, that's the book which I will go reread because I think it's just so powerful.

The other one, which is on a fun side, is Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!": Adventures of a Curious Character by Richard Feynman. Richard Feynman, Nobel prize-winning physicist. This book is just one of the best books on creativity, I think, because he solved some of the most ridiculous problems. He had an ant problem in his house, and he figured out how to solve the ant problem by using chalk. He was a safe cracker in Los Alamos. Basically, he said, I want to figure this out. I'm going to go try to do cool, goofy things. If you want to learn creativity, not in the traditional sense, but really like how to learn through experimentation, I think it's probably one of the best books. Those are probably my two favorites.

I love it. There's a bit of magician in him too. That's a sense of, like, solving and making things happen that didn't seem possible. I think that both those books are just so amazing. They've been recommended here before, and there's a reason why they are, because they're so profound. Some books are timeless, and that definitely speaks to that. This has been nothing short of amazing. I'm so grateful that you took the time to join us. Thank you for joining us and sharing all your insights and stories. It's been wonderful.

It was truly my pleasure. I enjoyed it. I love when we can explore places that maybe other podcasts don't. I enjoy what you do because it's just a little bit different than everyone else. I think that's what makes it so great.

Thank you so much. I'll take that for sure. I'll take that compliment. Before I let you go, I want to make sure that people know where to find you. Obviously, they're going to go find your book wherever books are sold, but definitely Amazon's a good spot. Where can they find you and learn more about your work?

The easiest place is just to go to TheInnovationSpeaker.com. The reason why I do that is because people typically misspell my first name and my last name. It's always easier to do it that way. One of the things also, if somebody's interested, one of my favorite tools I've developed is something called Personality Poker Game. You go to PersonalityPokerGame.com, and it's a card game that helps you very quickly and in the most ridiculously fun way learn about yourself, your relationships, the people you work with, and the people you have in your life. Those are the two places I would suggest people check out.

Awesome. I love it. That's going to be a lot of fun. I love that you got The Innovation Speaker. How cool is that? What a URL. Wonderful. Thanks again. Thanks to the listeners for coming on the journey. I know they're leaving really inspired and ready to take on their own challenges in their world and to innovate in their own world, finding out what's pivotal in their life. Thanks again. Thanks for the time together.

Thank you.

Important Links

• Stephen Shapiro on LinkedIn
• Personality Poker Game
• The Innovation Speaker
• Pivotal: Creating Stability in an Uncertain World
• Reengineering the Corporation: Manifesto for Business Revolution
• Man's Search for Meaning
• Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!": Adventures of a Curious Character

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