Wild Courage: Go After What You Want With Jenny Wood

Ever wondered what it takes to truly go after what you want in life? Jenny Wood, author of Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It, shares her incredible journey from unruly child to successful Google executive and beyond. She joins Tony Martignetti to talk about the pivotal flashpoints that shaped her path, how she learned to face her fears, and pursuing the dreams that truly mean something to her. Find out the right way to overcome imposter syndrome, navigate through the many risks in life, and unlock your very own version of success through your firm and courageous mindset.

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Wild Courage: Go After What You Want With Jenny Wood

It is my honor to introduce you to my guest, Jenny Wood. Jenny is a former Google executive and author of Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It. She left Google after eighteen years. While with the company, she founded one of Google's largest career development programs, serving tens of thousands of people. It is truly a pleasure to welcome you to the virtual campfire.

It is so nice to be here, Tony. I'm feeling warm and cozy already at this campfire.

I love it. I just love the ability to bring people to this space and create this place where people can feel safe sharing their insights about where they've been on this journey to getting where they are. I'm so excited about sharing who you are, about the book, and all the things that we're going to get into. It's going to be fun. Let's get into it.

One of the things that we're going to do today is share your story through what we call flashpoints. Flashpoints are the points in your journey that have ignited your gifts into the world. What we'll do is turn it over to you in a moment or two and allow you to share what you're called to share. Along the way, we'll pause and see what shows up. How does that sound?

That sounds great.

Wonderful. Jenny, take it away.

Learning Discipline And Focus In Choir

Flashpoint number one. This is coming to mind when I was in fourth grade. I was in this choir in Colorado, where I grew up. I'm still based here in Colorado after a couple of tours in Boston, New York, and Ann Arbor for various reasons. I grew up in Colorado, and I was in this choir called the Colorado Children's Chorale, which was a pretty professional-seeming choir, no, not just professional-seeming. It was a legit choir where we worked really hard.

We had a very strict director named Mr. Wolf. I was so unruly. I was always talking. I was always trying to figure out ways to not follow the rules. I was always fidgeting, had a lot of energy, and was always pushing it. Back in the day, you can't do this with kids anymore, but I would be asked to stand for huge chunks of the rehearsal while everybody else was sitting.

It taught me that discipline matters, that focus matters, that being obsessed with a craft matters, that rigor matters. This director, Mr. Wolf, has had as much influence on my life as any adult figure had on my life growing up. It's interesting that that's where my mind goes when I think about my first flashpoint. It really did teach me to care deeply about what I do, to have the best possible output for me and for anybody I'm impacting.

I just love the way that you started with this because there's something about this, I don't hear about this very often on the show, where people talk about those moments like that. I remember having a boss who was really hard on me. When the rotation of this particular program was over, I was like, “Why were you so hard on me?” She said, “Because I knew you could handle it.” It was a test.

I think it's just like this, where you realize that this was one of those crucible moments. In the end, it stinks going through it, but then when you get through it, you're like, “That was just part of the lesson.”

I've had other leaders who've said to me, “I'm giving you this constructive feedback because I care about you” or “because I believe in you.” That's similar to your boss saying, “Because I know you can handle it.” I was in that choir from fourth grade through eighth grade. I'm not kidding, I was a very unruly child. I got a D in behavior in sixth grade. I got a D, like the letter grade D, in behavior in sixth grade, maybe fifth grade. It was Mr. Wolf who really whipped me into shape in the best way possible.

It was because he cared about all the children in the choir and had such an eye toward excellence. I developed that eye toward excellence. I applied it as a leader, or I did for many years at Google, and it was so inspirational to me. It's interesting because kids are treated differently these days, in school and at home. I just don't think that would fly right now, but I'm so grateful for it.

It gives you that inner grit and the sense of being able to get through a lot more because you know you've done a lot of things in the past that have given you that sense of getting through tough things. I love that. Let me know what happens next. Where are we going to go next? You're in Colorado. You're in this choir, which sounds amazing, that you did this, that you had this artistic part of you. What did you decide to do next?

Another flashpoint that comes to mind is the drive that kicked in in middle school. That was when I was participating in a magazine sale contest. I am so dating myself. Do you remember magazine sale contests where you would go around to your aunts and uncles and be like, “Do you want to buy a subscription to People? Do you want to buy a subscription to Newsweek?” This was a flashpoint that taught me my inner drive. I was so excited about the prospect of winning the number one prize, which was a hot air balloon ride, and another prize, which was a portable TV. Could I be aging myself anymore? A portable TV.

I remember thinking, “I could go to Aunt Carol and Uncle Michael and ask them if they want to order magazines, but what if I went to everybody in my neighborhood?” I did that. “What if I went to everybody in the neighborhood next to mine?” I did that. That worked pretty well. “What if I went to every neighborhood that was realistic for my parents to drive me to and went around to all these houses and just kept selling and selling and selling?”

There's something about having a goal and achieving it that was just very thrilling to me. I did win. I remember being in that hot air balloon, looking over those neighborhoods that I had just sold all these subscriptions to, and being like, “This is what winning feels like.” You know what, Tony? It is okay to want to win.

You're like, suckers. I'm kidding. I'm done.

Hope you enjoyed that Cosmo article. Everyone would. That’s the best, when you win and then the person you’re selling to wins. People liked magazines at the time. Just like you used to crinkle them up and use Windex on your mirrors in the bathroom, right?

Yeah. That’s so priceless to hear that, the early entrepreneur in you, this drive. Also, knowing where does it come from? The inner drive is not just because you want to win the prize, but it's also about that desire to win. I think it’s okay. It’s okay. Once you realize what it is that’s driving you, then you can start to move towards that goal. We’re going to probably get into a lot more about goals as we get further along in your journey and learn more about the book. Tell me, how did all of this kind of feed into where you started to get into your career?

Landing A Job At Google

Being driven and Mr. Wolf having taught me that being obsessed is okay with excellence, I wanted to work at the best company to work for in the world in 2006. At the time, that was Google. I really didn’t even know much about what Google did or whether I had a role there because I wasn’t an engineer. I studied economics and international business. I was like, “Is there even an opportunity for me to work here?”

As it turns out, there was a data analytics role that I applied for in 2006. Being that driven middle school magazine salesperson that I was, I was like, “I am going to get a job at Google.” I applied online, and then I realized that I’d uploaded my resume and the formatting was funky. When one door closes, I kick in a basement window. I was like, “I now have an opportunity to go drive to the Google office and hand-deliver them a resume, as you do.” So I literally got in my mom’s ten-year-old stick-shift Honda and drove to the Google Denver office. I waited there until someone came out and spoke to me. I handed them my resume and told them that I’d just come back from doing some work abroad, which I understood was a very Googly thing to do. I think because of that extra touch, the recruiter called, and I ended up getting the role. I spent eighteen incredible years there, growing from entry-level to executive.

At first, when you were describing this, I was thinking you drove from Denver to Mountain View.

That would be dedication.

I was going to say, that is insane. Totally. Even still, doing that in Denver and just going up there, that takes a lot of courage, a wild courage. I think that is something really amazing, to see that they saw that in you. So wild. You get there, you start to fill in, did you feel like you fit in from day one, or does anyone really fit in?

That’s a great question. I would say anytime you’re working in a place that’s full of high-caliber people, imposter syndrome is just the expected feeling in the first twelve months. If you don’t feel imposter syndrome, maybe you are a little more arrogant than the average person, because there were just so many smart, talented, capable, kind, creative people who I was sitting next to, rolling my chair over to ask them a question about how to concatenate these two columns on a spreadsheet, or whatever it was at the time.

If you don't feel imposter syndrome, maybe you are a little more arrogant than the average person.

I for sure felt imposter syndrome. I had this wonderful imposter syndrome and just felt overwhelmed by all the opportunities. “How do you navigate such a large place?” I had this wonderful manager, my first manager there, who taught me a pivotal lesson about how to maintain calmness among a high-caliber group of people in an intense place with a lot of opportunities.

This moment I remember, all thirty of us in this one department were going to this quarterly town hall like little worker bees. There was a town hall on our calendar, so we all stand up from our desks and we walk to go to the town hall. Everybody shows up. Everybody attends without question. I was like, “Are you coming?” He’s like, “No.” I was like, “What do you mean, no?” He was one of the leaders, and I thought that he would feel this was important. He’s like, “I don’t think I’m going to add any value to this meeting. I tend to not derive much value from these giant group meetings. I’m just going to stay here and get my work done.”

I was like, mind blown, that you could say no to something like that. I would say that one of the things that helped me be successful, and that I see helping others be successful, who I coach, is saying yes to the big and no to the small. Yes is the big quarterly project that is critical for your boss’s boss. It’s maybe that big strategy H1 presentation that takes a lot of time and effort. Those are the things you want to say yes to.

By contrast, you need to say no to the small. No to the small might be being the eighteenth person on an email to reply, “Happy birthday, Jimmy.” You can see Jimmy in the kitchen and give him a high-five. Small could also be responding to every single email in your inbox, whether you reply all or not. Small could be going to every single meeting on your calendar without question.

The fact that my manager at the time was questioning whether he needed to be at this meeting, it taught me, these meetings add up. Every little 30-minute meeting on your calendar adds up to chunks of your week that you could be dedicating to something big. You have to be choosy. That was something I learned really early in my career that I tried to employ. In fact, I was playing Monopoly with my son not too long ago, he’s nine. He was eight at the time. He was crushing me. He had just bought Boardwalk. What’s the other one like Boardwalk that’s really expensive?

Park Place.

Park Place, exactly. Boardwalk and Park Place. I landed on Baltics. I was like, “I'm going to buy it. It's cheap. I'm running out of money. You're killing me, Ari.” He's like, “Mom, why would you buy Baltics?” I was like, “I don't know. Why not?” He's like, “Are you just going to collect a bunch of tiny properties and then not be able to collect much rent on any of them?”

His strategy, and he was winning, mind you, was, “No, let's invest in the big stuff, where you can buy a hotel and get $1,000 or $2,000, or whatever it is that you get for a hotel on Boardwalk and Park Place, as opposed to scattering your energy, your resources, and your investments across a bunch of tiny properties.”

Here's my eight-year-old being so smart and so wise and teaching me so much that is so applicable to how we think about our day-to-day, because your time is not endless. The ROI on your time is something that you should always be interrogating every day. Boardwalk's not Baltics, to me, is the same as say yes to the big and say no to the small.

Time is not endless. Combined with your ROI, you should always be integrating it every day.

That's such a great reminder. There's something about that, which, first of all, right out of the mouths of babes. Their view into the world is, oftentimes, we get stuck because we feel like we know everything. We've got these patterns that are ingrained in us, and then, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, boom, there's an insight.

I think it's common nature that we feel like we've learned all these things, and we know that we just keep on applying the same thing over and over again. We can learn so much when we stay open-minded. I think that's one of the cool things about going to a place like this, where you feel like, “I have so much to learn.” If I just remain aware of what's happening, I can learn so much.

That's another one that came up last night. My daughter, Noah, she's seven now, was brushing her teeth. She was singing something like, “I can't ride a bike, I can't ride a horse, I can't tie my shoes, yet, yet, yet.” I was like, “Noah, what did you just say?” They were learning about Carol Dweck's growth mindset in second grade. They literally were listening to this song in second grade about adding the word yet to the end of your sentence.

I use that with coachees all the time. I will say, “Think of a sentence that starts with 'I can't' or 'I don't.'” For example, “I'm not the kind of leader I want to be.” Or, “I don't know as much about AI as I should.” If you add the word yet to the end of that sentence. “I'm not the leader I want to be yet. I don't know enough about AI yet.” It totally changes your mindset into something that is so much more empowering and less stressful.

Truths And Tales: Reframing Your Narrative

It's so beautiful. First of all, I'm so glad you did the singing today. This is probably the first time I've heard someone truly sing on the show. Actually, that's the second time, because I did have someone sing. Totally forgot about it.

I like to be a little bit weird. I'm glad I could have my hat on that anecdote.

That's awesome. I love it. One of the things that this brings to mind is the sense of, like, it's the programming we need. I don't know if it's NLP that I'm really tapping into, but this, we need to program our minds, our unconscious, our subconscious, to tell us that this is not a limitation. It's just something that we're growing into. I think that's the part of this that is really important. It's, “Don't make up stories about ourselves that we live into. Instead, live into a story that is about us growing into who we are going to be.”

For sure. Since we're talking about making up stories, I love thinking about truths and tales. In any situation, there are the truths. Those are the verifiable facts. The sky is blue. This desk is white. My microphone is black. Then there are the tales. The tales are the stories we create to make sense of the truths. That is what can put us in fight or flight, or it can help us feel empowered.

One example that I experienced was, I was preparing for a one-on-one with my manager, and then I got an email that the one-on-one, normally on a Tuesday, had been moved to a Thursday. Thursday comes, I get another email that the one-on-one had been moved to a Friday. There had been lots of layoffs going on at the company. The truth was, the meeting had been moved to a Thursday. The meeting then got moved to a Friday. Those are the only facts in this situation. The tale that I created out of that truth was, “I'm getting laid off.”

I got a text from someone who was a close friend, and they said, “I heard about the layoffs going on in your org. Do you think you're going to be impacted?” I was like, “Oh my gosh, tale, tale, tale. My manager just moved my meeting twice, from a Tuesday to a Thursday, and then to a Friday. Layoffs always happen on a Friday.”

I checked the calendar of the HR person in our org, trying to see if this person also had a meeting at the same time. “Were they going to show up mysteriously?” I started gathering all of my personal information off of my work laptop, and then I stopped myself, Tony, and I was like, “What am I doing?” My performance has been good. My team's been knocking our metrics out of the park. There is no reason for me to create this tale that I'm getting laid off.

When we live in fear, that amygdala hijack can take over our ability to think rationally about what's happening around us. Thankfully, I caught myself and I stopped downloading my personal pictures from my laptop and started putting together all the updates that I had intended to share that week and added them to this one-on-one doc that I shared with my manager.

It just reminds you that there are truths in a situation, “The meeting got moved twice.” There are tales we tell ourselves, “I'm getting laid off.” You can always reframe that tale to tell a more empowering story, or to take a longer view, or, even if it's not a rose-colored-glasses, Pollyanna kind of story, at least a neutral story that doesn't put you in a place of living in fear, because fear blocks so much.

There are depressing tales we tell ourselves all the time. But we can always reframe them to tell a more empowering story.

It blocks productivity. It blocks creativity. It blocks relationships. It blocks your sleep and your health and all sorts of practical things in Maslow’s baseline hierarchy of needs. A lot of this, to me, is at the root of truths and tales, and what we say about the things happening around us versus what's actually happening because our minds and our voices, especially in what we tell ourselves, are powerful and sometimes scary tools.

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Listeners, if you've been inspired by the conversations on The Virtual Campfire, then you're going to love my new book, Campfire Lessons for Leaders: How Uncovering Our Past Can Propel Us Forward. It dives deeper into the insights and powerful lessons from many of our incredible guests. It will spark your inspiration on your path to creating what you want in the world. Don't miss out, grab your copy on Amazon or wherever books are sold.

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It truly is. This is such a great insight you're bringing to the table because there's something about this that has me thinking also about the world of social media, which can be really challenging, the comparison trap that we fall into. We're seeing this one-dimensional part of other people, and then we start thinking, “We must not be doing good enough, We must be missing something, or What are we doing wrong? Blah, blah, blah, blah.”

We're starting to make up all this stuff about ourselves, like a doom-cycle spiral downward, without necessarily coming to the fact that maybe we're doing much better than we think. Those people we're comparing ourselves to are not necessarily doing as well as we think they are. There's a lot happening that we're just making stories about.

One hundred percent. It's also interesting to hear you speaking to the interrelated downside of social media, which is comparison and keeping up with the Joneses, “Am I good enough? How do I look?” There's also, for me, what I've experienced, this intra relationship with social media. For me, my social media of choice is LinkedIn. Mind you, I never, ever used social media before I became an entrepreneur and started using it for the book because, honestly, I just didn't care.

I just felt like it was a big waste of my time. I was so proud that I just did not subscribe to this whole social media culture. It was a total anomaly that I didn't use it. I was like the only person who didn't use social media, and now, I use it. The intra relationship for me is my own relationship with it.  Here's where it's a blocker for me, I have everything you just described,  comparing myself to others, feeling like I am not enough, or worrying about how I look, or the fact that I don't wear makeup, or I just had an idea and want to record a quick video for LinkedIn, and my hair, I still have bedhead. Whatever it is.

All that stuff is true for me as well, about what other people might think about me and what I might think about that. The other struggle I have found, which is intra, because it's only within me, is, I'm losing out on the present moment by thinking about what this might be as far as content on social media. For example, we got a box of the advanced reader copies of the book, and I was so excited to open them. Rather than just opening the box and enjoying seeing these ten copies in the box, it became a whole thing, where my kids had to be there, and we were wearing yellow shirts to match the cover of the book, and my husband had to do seven takes, and the kids were getting cranky.

I was like, “Jenny, you are missing the point.” You are missing an opportunity to feel joy and happiness and pride, and you're turning it into a show. That is an intra relationship issue I have with social media, missing the moment or you take that to an extreme example, and there was a period where I was often walking around thinking, “What could I record here? What could I say here? What can I take a picture of here?” Missing so many moments to be present.

I'm so honored that you shared that. I really am. I don't mean to be that, I know it's probably, it's very vulnerable to share that, but at the same time, I think it's so wonderful you do because it shows the realness that you are experiencing through this journey. It's not an easy thing, to want to look all polished and good, do the right thing as you want it to do, but at the same time, it's so hard to just capture the moment in the moment.

Almost like when you think about the kids too. The children are at a certain age, at a certain time, and you want to capture the ages when they are young but when you're trying to get so much accomplished through work and all the things, sometimes it moves so fast. You got to slow down and be like, “Let's just enjoy this. Enjoy the moment.”

My son kept it really real for me yesterday. We were late for his haircut, we were six minutes late for a 30-minute appointment. I was like, “They're going to cancel it. We've been trying to get this haircut for twelve weeks, and he can't see, his hair is in his eyes. Time to get in the car.” He bolted out of the house on his bicycle. I couldn't find him. He was somewhere in the neighborhood.

I was like, “We are so late for this haircut.” I was not the happiest camper in the car. Just this normal stuff, “We're going to miss it. We're so rude. Blah, blah.” He put it right back on me. He said, “Mom, I didn't assume you really meant get in the car, because you're always working so hard. I figured you would just keep working.”

Talk about a dagger-in-the-heart moment. I am working really hard. A book launch is like nothing I've ever experienced in my life. There is an endless amount of stuff that can be done. There is a finite amount of time. I've never done it before, it's like I'm totally new at this as a debut author. I think there is truth to what he was saying. “Mommy is working really hard.”

For all of you listening, I have no great takeaway here. It is hard to be a working mom or a working parent. Hopefully, my kids will, here's my takeaway. I have a takeaway. I have something to offer you, listeners. When my son had a playdate the other day, he immediately brought his friend into my office and picked up one of these copies of the book that had arrived. He's like, “My mom's an author. This is her book. How cool is this? My mom is an author.”

Even though I'm working really hard, and it is taking some time away from my children, I do think that they're proud of me. It shows them that dedication and hard work and excellence, like we talked about at the top of the show, can pay off. It does set a good example for your kids. It just has to be balanced. Maybe this goes back to Baltics versus Boardwalks, which is, “What are the key moments I really should be there for my kids?” Is it that musical? Is it the soccer game?

My kids don't play soccer, so that's easy for me, but the canonical soccer game. Is it picking them up from school X number of days a week? Say yes to the big, and don't beat myself up for the small things. “My kids had twenty extra minutes of iPad today while I contacted another couple of leads for speaking engagements for 2025.” I think there's also a saying yes to the big or being mindful of the Broadways, and saying no to the small or being mindful of the Baltics, in this as well.

Leaving Google: Evaluating The Risk

I'm going to use that Broadway Baltics analogy. I think it's such a beautiful way of looking at it. I just love what you shared. I think there's real power in that lesson. It happened in real-time, in this moment. I think that was really beautiful, that you shared that. Time is flying by. I want to hear about the exit. Leaving Google, I don't mean to call it the exit.

It was an exit.

Tell me about what happened as you decided to move on from Google. It must've been hard, but also, the decision is, like, catapulting you into some amazing places right now. Obviously, we'll get into the book in a moment, but please, tell me about the exit.

For sure. I had to reevaluate my relationship with two things, 1) risk, and 2) money. Risk. I kept saying, “Why?” I'm the breadwinner for my family. I kept saying, “I cannot believe that if I leave Google, I'm not going to have stable income. I'm leaving to be an entrepreneur, to be a keynote speaker and do corporate workshops and talk about the book. This feels like a risky situation here.” When I really started to break it down and evaluate the risk, I looked at it across four dimensions, what is the physical risk? What is the mental risk? What is the emotional risk? What is the financial risk? That'll take us into the changed relationship with money.

Physical risk, I literally just, super simple, rated everything on a scale of 1 to 5. One, low. Five, high. Physical risk, one. There was not a lot of physical risk in leaving Google. If anything, it was better for my health because I was trying to do a lot at the same time. I had founded what was one of Google's largest career development programs in its 27-year history. I did that as a passion project.

My core job was leading an operations team that sat between sales and engineering, that helped drive billions of dollars in revenue. I was not bored. Even from a physical risk standpoint, it was probably better for my stress. Stress can be a killer. To think about doing one thing well, as opposed to many things decently. That was physical risk. I did not rate that very high.

Cognitive risk, low. I'd been at Google eighteen years. If you think of cognitive risk as the mental tax, or what you're learning, or what this will expand your mind into doing, again, there was more risk in staying, almost. I was having incremental learning there, but not step-function learning, like I'd have as an entrepreneur, an author, and a speaker.

As I evaluated with a scale of 1 to 5, my mental risk of leaving was also a one. As I thought about my emotional risk, that was more like a two, because I had a lot of my identity tied up in Google, and a lot of pride in working there. There's some emotional, just, like, friends. Going out and being independent and working solo every day, I think there was some risk there to consider.

Financial risk, that was more like a three, but not a five, because we'd met with our financial advisor seven times over the past year. We've always been good savers and started investing early. That makes a huge difference. To all of you listening, the number one thing you can do to build your finances is to start investing and saving immediately when you start working, at 22. It's like, you think, “Leaving Google. Be an entrepreneur. Massive risk. Why would you turn down an executive salary?”

When you break it down across these five dimensions and rate them all on a scale of 1 to 5, physical risk, mental risk, emotional risk, and financial risk, it starts to seem a little less scary. That brings me to the second point, changing my relationship with money. Money was a big value of mine. Not that I only care about money, I don't, but it's like, money is really powerful. It's powerful in your decision-making, and it's powerful as a driver.Anybody who pretends that it's not, is totally lying.

It's not like I no longer consider money an important value, but I had to recalibrate, and think about other values. Like, time with my family, which, clearly, I'm still working on but being high net freedom or the value of autonomy or the value of memory dividends. If you're familiar with the book Die With Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life, thinking about, “Do you really need to have generational wealth?” I'd been at Google eighteen years and was very successful, I was not looking at, “Can we pay the mortgage?” I was looking at, “How much money are we going to die with?”

As I went through this process, I thought about, maybe that doesn't matter as much, as having a new adventure. Reprioritizing my family. Reprioritizing my community. Tapping into being high net freedom. Tapping into my autonomy, and then, just plain having fun, Tony. Let's not underestimate fun, and adventure, and doing something different.

I love that you say that, because it's exactly it. That's a value that's really high on my list, adventure. I think there's something about that, which is to say, even if you go out and you do something like this, and it doesn't necessarily work out exactly as planned, that's okay, because you can always find ways to make something else happen. It's just, nothing's permanent.

Before Google, I did research at Harvard Business School for three years. One year, organizational behavior. One year, negotiations. One year, in strategy. One of my favorite takeaways from the research I did in the year I studied negotiations was, “What's your BATNA?” BATNA is a classic negotiations term, which stands for Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement.

Basically, in layman's terms, it means, “What's your fallback plan?” I was like, “If I go razzle-dazzle this book for two to three years, and it is a total bust, I go get another job.” Even if the book flops, and I don’t think it’s going to, because it’s looking pretty good, I just go back to Google or I go work at another tech company or I work at a small company or I move from my operations expertise to what I now have realized is a huge love of mine, helping people learn.

Maybe I'm a Chief Learning Officer at a mid- or small-sized company, which is a whole different adventure, as you said. I realized that one of the more important points I had to recognize is, “I have a really strong BATNA, and there is no need to live in fear.” Let's not kid ourselves, fear is a very powerful emotion.

I did spend a lot of time living in fear over the last eighteen months. I will not pretend that this was easy breezy lemon squeezy. I had my four types of risk assessment. I put it in this spreadsheet, and bada bing, bada boom, I was decided. It was the easiest thing in the world. That was agony. That was agony deciding.

I hear you. If it wasn't, it wouldn’t be worth it. I want to get into the book because I feel like I want to give you an opportunity to share with the listeners what the book's about. You don’t have to give the whole, the whole story, but just give them a taste of what they’re going to be getting into.

Wild Courage: The Nine Traits

It does tie to fear because the whole first part of the intro is about how living in the fear of the unknown, fear of uncertainty, fear of failure, and the fear of how much we all want to people-please each day, can really get in your way of achieving your biggest goals and ambitions in life. It's called Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It, because I met my husband by chasing a total stranger, at the time,  off the New York City subway because I thought he was cute. I gave him my business card. No joke.

I gave him my business card, and I was like, “I'm Jenny. You were on my subway. I thought you were cute. Any chance I could give you my business card?” He said, yes. We've been married eleven years now, with two great kids. The wild courage I mustered that day is the same wild courage that has made so much happen for me in terms of success in my personal life, professional life, relationships, friendships. It does take wild courage.

It takes going against the grain, a little bit. I talked about how I was this unruly, rule-breaking, little hoodlum of a child. The chapter titles of the book are these nine eyebrow-raising traits, that sound terrible, but really create the bars of an invisible cage that keeps you small. Those nine traits are weird, selfish, shameless, nosy, obsessed, manipulative. That's a spicy one. Brutal, reckless, and bossy. The book guides the reader through how they can use these traits, insane and savvy ways, we’re not trying to harm anybody with this book, to help them achieve their greatest ambitions in life.

I just love it, because here’s one of the things that I always connect to on the show. When we think back to our youngest selves, it’s almost like we knew who we were going to end up being from the moment we were children. This child, who’s unruly, is being wild and out there and trying new things. Here you are, writing a book about wild courage, that is all about the things you've been doing all along, in different ways. This book sounds like it’s going to be so much fun for people to tap into, but also packed with a great way for us to push the envelope, push out of our boundaries, and so, I'm excited.

Thank you. Even the stuff I talked about so far on this show, it can all be tied to one of the traits. Take my first manager at Google, who said, “I'm not going to go to that meeting. That's not a good use of my time.” Guess what? He was being brutal about his calendar. Look at Mr. Wolf from my childhood choir, who said, “Jenny, you're going to stand this entire two-hour rehearsal while everybody else sits because you are not being as dedicated to craft as you need to be right now.” He taught me to be obsessed.

Truths and tales, where you have the facts of a situation, and then you have the story you create to make sense of those facts. That's all about living in fear and shame, and that's shameless. How can you have a shameless interpretation of the facts that allows you to tell a more positive tale? Same with yet. Yet is about reducing your imposter syndrome. Shameless is about kicking that imposter syndrome to the curb.

Lots of what we've already talked about in this conversation ties directly to all the practical stuff I give people in the book, that, frankly, people can use that day. It’s not this ivory tower theory that is high in the sky, high-level ideas. It is like, “What can I do today, in the here and now,” to build a better relationship with my boss? To have more fruitful partnerships with my clients? To have a better relationship with my husband?

I love it. That's the mic drop moment right there, when you start to reveal that all the things you've been saying all along, which in many ways were not planned, all fit into the chapters of the book. I love the approachability of this. We have enough highbrow writing out there that’s just, snore fest. I read too much, and I'm finding myself kind of like, having a very high bar for what I can tolerate. I love it. I'm looking forward to it. In the interest of time, because I want to get you out on time, I have to ask my last question. I am going to wait for what you're going to share with me, because I know it's going to be amazing. One or two books that have had an impact on you, and why?

Number one, Build for Tomorrow: An Action Plan for Embracing Change, Adapting Fast, and Future-Proofing Your Career by Jason Feifer. Jason Feifer is the Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur magazine, and he has this four-part framework for change, which would have been so appropriate for the question around how'd you decide to leave Google? He's one of the best writers I know. He's really just phenomenal. The other is a book called The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power by Katherine Morgan Schafler.

First of all, is that not the coolest title ever? The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power. She argues that it's okay to be a perfectionist. It's all the positive sides of that, because so often, we're always trying to curb our perfectionism or try to be more free and loose. She’s like, “Here’s why it’s awesome.” It's really counterintuitive.

That comes back to a saying that I always say, Structure creates freedom. Which is about how having structure and creating that sense of rigidity also allows you to have freedom within that rigidity. Which, in some ways, seems like a paradox, but it is. It works. Jenny, I don't even know where to begin. This has been so amazing. I'm just so thrilled that you came and joined me. I love your stories, all the insights. Thank you so much.

It’s been my total pleasure to be here. What a fun conversation, and looking forward to staying in touch.

Wonderful. Before you go, I want to make sure that listeners know where they can find out more about you. Where’s the best place to reach out?

You can order the book at ItsJennyWood.com/book. You can also find me on LinkedIn, at Jenny Wood, and all the other socials, at ItsJennyWood.

Cool. Good to know. Wonderful. Thanks again. Thanks, listeners, for coming on the journey. I know you're leaving completely entertained and inspired. So thrilled. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Important Links

• Jenny Wood on LinkedIn
• Jenny Wood on Instagram
• Jenny Wood on X
• Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It
• Campfire Lessons for Leaders: How Uncovering Our Past Can Propel Us Forward
• Build for Tomorrow: An Action Plan for Embracing Change, Adapting Fast, and Future-Proofing Your Career
• Die With Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life
• The Perfectionist's Guide to Losing Control: A Path to Peace and Power

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